A glass of wine a day don't do crap

[Rich]

World's oldest person dies at 115 in Indiana (Never drank)
SHELBYVILLE, Ind. — Edna Parker, who became the world's oldest person more than a year ago, has died at age 115.
UCLA gerontologist Dr. Stephen Coles said Parker's great-nephew notified him that Parker died Wednesday at a nursing home in Shelbyville. She was 115 years, 220 days old, said Robert Young, a senior consultant for gerontology for Guinness World Records.
Parker was born April 20, 1893, in central Indiana's Morgan County and had been recognized by Guinness World Records as the world's oldest person since the 2007 death in Japan of Yone Minagawa, who was four months her senior.
Coles maintains a list of the world's oldest people and said Parker was the 14th oldest validated supercentenarian in history. Maria de Jesus of Portugal, who was born Sept. 10, 1893, is now the world's oldest living person, according to the Gerontology Research Group.
Parker had been a widow since her husband, Earl Parker, died in 1939 of a heart attack. She lived alone in their farmhouse until age 100, when she moved into a son's home and later to the Shelbyville nursing home.
Although she never drank alcohol or tried tobacco and led an active life, Parker didn't offer tips for living a long life. Her only advice to those who gathered to celebrate when she became the oldest person was "more education."

[Hoots]

:D Thanks Rich

[Megs]

What a great story.

Thanks for posting that, Richie-pops.

[Rich]

Ya kiss my pooter you Doctors that say drinking a glass of wine a day can make you live longer. The worlds oldest man said his secret was he never drank


'Oldest' Man Turns 113, Says Not Drinking Alcohol Is Key to Longevity

Thursday, September 18, 2008
http://www.foxnews.com/images/439200/1_61_320_Tomoji.jpg (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424442,00.html#) AP

Tomoji Tanabe

The Japanese man said to be the oldest in the world celebrated his 113th birthday Thursday and told reporters the key to long life is abstaining from alcohol, Reuters reports.
"I'm happy," said Tomoji Tanabe. "I'm well. I eat a lot.”

[Roxanne...]

I believe it.

I wish more doctors would back things like this up.

I am so sick and tired of hearing how good a glass or two of wine a day is for you. Don't they realize half their patients are lying to them about how much they drink???

[Jackalope]

I know I always lied to the doc about how much I drank. Until towards the end of my drinking career when I was looking for help. That was such a relief.

Rich, you are not a woosie -- so there.

xoxo
J.

[Rich]

Ha Ha told you I was not a woosie

[spongebetty]

I am so sick and tired of hearing how good a glass or two of wine a day is for you. Don't they realize half their patients are lying to them about how much they drink???


Amen sister! I am tired of that too.

Thanks for this, Richie poo

[bigsister987]

I'm sick and tired of hearing that red wine is a 'health drink'. Yes I really heard that on tv (from a wine correspondent :rolleyes:, yeah right).

I saw a programme once about healthy living and the table with all the healthy fruit and veg had a bottle of red wine on it. The dietician said red wine has antioxidants so it is good for you. That is complete rubbish. Lots of foods have antioxidants in, you don't need to drink booze to get them. A glass of wine a day increases a woman's risk of breast cancer! It is not a healthy option.

Now chocolate on the other hand......

New research published in the Medical Journal "Lancet", shows that eating chocolate could prevent cancer and heart disease and contrary to popular belief also fights tooth decay.

Research conducted by scientist from Holland's National Institute of Public Health and Environment shows that chocolates contain antioxidants called Catechins and Phenols. These antioxidants could prevent heart diseases and cancer.

Until now tea was thought to contain the largest amount of these antioxidants but this new research indicates that dark chocolate has four times as much as compared to tea. The researchers found that dark chocolate had 53.5 mg of catechins per 100 gm, milk chocolate contains 15.9 mg per 100 gm, and the black tea contains 13.9 mg per 100 ml.

[sharksandwich]

The Japanese man said to be the oldest in the world celebrated his 113th birthday Thursday and told reporters the key to long life is abstaining from alcohol, Reuters reports.

Then he drooled all over himself, slurred his speech, urinated in his depends and passed out in his chair. Thus, demonstrating that one does not need to drink in order to have the same good time.

[Rich]

50s is 40 so 110 is the new 100.

[Roxanne...]

A glass of wine a day increases a woman's risk of breast cancer! It is not a healthy option.

Yes...........the doctors that are advocating drinking red wine for the health benefirts never seem to mention this and yet it is a well documented fact.

[Lia~~]

That recommendation about a glass of red wine a day is history-- that changed about 5 years ago, unfortunately docs don't always keep up with current literature. However they DO keep up with malpractice insurance -- and the latest notice to health care providers from the big insurers is: STOP IT or we won't cover you. (not in those words, but that was the message).

About time.

Thanks for posting this, Rich.

[eastanglian]

50s is 40.

That's nice to know.:)

[bree]

cool. :cool:

I want to live to be a 100 and be cranky.

[marv]

My doc was unimpressed when I first told him I had quit drinking. And maybe he has heard that story from so many others that he feels it would last only a short time.

He's a great guy but likes to drink. I think doctors don't view alcohol in the same way that we do.

So I guess I didn't quit to impress anyone anyway.

[click]

Here's a magnum of red wine and five cans of beer when it runs out, to your health!

[Rich]

cool. :cool:

I want to live to be a 100 and be cranky....and I want to feel your wrinkle butt when you get that age :D

[imaguy2]

I'm sick and tired of hearing that red wine is a 'health drink'. Yes I really heard that on tv (from a wine correspondent :rolleyes:, yeah right).

I saw a programme once about healthy living and the table with all the healthy fruit and veg had a bottle of red wine on it. The dietician said red wine has antioxidants so it is good for you. That is complete rubbish. Lots of foods have antioxidants in, you don't need to drink booze to get them. A glass of wine a day increases a woman's risk of breast cancer! It is not a healthy option.

Now chocolate on the other hand......

Yeah, exactly. Just today I saw an article on MSN about how good beer (specifically the alcohol) is for you.. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Charlie]

cool. :cool:

I want to live to be a 100 and be cranky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IdoBwIBqeQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XqNm-FU8uU&feature=related

[bree]

hahaha - i definitely will be the lady in blue.

[wame]

the guy I live withs father is a lifelong alcoholic.....diabetes, quadruple bypass, stroke, etc....he still drinks a case of beer a day.....

when he was in the hospital--in atlanta---for his heart surgery last year...the dr informed his mom that when they ask patients how much they drink the dr. always doubles that amount b/c the patient never is 100% honest about alcohol intake...

I was impressed! Maybe some people lie about their alcohol intake more than that, but, at least doctors are able to figure a little bit of the alcoholics lies into the equation...

And last week when I was talking to that sleep specialist in seattle, he went into this huge diatribe about how alcohol was total poison to the body.....he was a leading sleep specialist who was 38 yrs old....so he is definitely from the "new school"

We are making strides----it's not all negative!!!!

[bigsister987]

You can often tell people are heavy drinkers by their skin, puffy face and eyes, red lines etc. I'm sure docs can recognise the signs.

[dare2livedreams]

when they say a glass of wine a day is good for you, they usually don't mention that you can get the same positive benefits by eating some fresh grapes. I saw a special a few weeks ago that had that statement in it. Maybe it's society's way of giving drinkers a way to feel better about what they do

[Marcus Gold]

I think I've posted on this in the past, but I haven't been around for a few months. The view that moderate drinking had health benefits is now known to be based on a basic, and really pretty stupid, flaw in the studies that purported to show the result: the category of "abstainers" in the studies included people who used to drink a lot and had quit (thus, people who had already damaged themselves with alcohol). When this defect is corrected, there is no evidence that alcohol has any health benefits. It's sad that many health "professionals" still perpetuate the error. Here's a link to a newspaper article on the topic:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/30/MNGMTI0B3U1.DTL

[jm8]

I think before anyone in the medical community or the media gives any credence to the results of any so called "scientific studies," touting the benefits of x product, they need to get full disclosure of who is funding these studies.

and if you read the studies, alot of them even admit their findings are not necessarily conclusive. for example, do the moderate wine drinkers in their studies suffer from less maladies because of their wine, or because moderate wine drinkers tend to lean toward other positive lifestyle factors than the non-drinkers and heavy drinkers in their studies?

many of these studies use clever phrases such as "seems to be a link," "may be a link," or "shows a positive relationship, but warrants further study."

to echo the basic sentiment of some of the above posters, what they don't tell you is that you can get the same antioxidants found in red wine in a variety of fruits, nuts, vegetable oils, as well as coffee and tea.

the last doc I saw was a jackass. i was still drinking. my triglycerides were through the roof, my HDL was a little low. I told him I drank but was working on quitting, thus, I expected my trigs to come down. he said "but red wine will help you get your HDL back up."

fool! i was already drinking red wine plus lots of other crap, alot of good it was doing my HDL! ever hear of exercise, fish oil, niacin, etc etc

"alcohol helps prevent clogged arteries." yeah, so does aspirin and exercise.

[jm8]

you damn zinger pirate!

[Georgie McCall]

Yeah I want to live to 100 and then go to a nudist beach and dance a little jig. The "Hooray for me, I'm a hundred so kiss my ass I can to what I want" dance

[going my own way]

I remember that bloody statement about red wine being good for your health , and read somewhere that chilean red wine was even better as the grapes were smaller and the goodness came from the skin . Dooooooh , why did'nt I just eat grapes instead ?:confused:I used that statement many times subconciously to justify my drinking too much red wine .Damn the person who came up with that "fact"

[Sober]

There is an agenda behind everything you read in the press. This one is to sell wine.

I agree with the above statement. Why not just eat the grapes?

Drinking poison is stupid. Alcohol in any form is poison.

It's that simple.

[SlyOne2]

I had a psychiatrist tell me NOT to quit drinking when I told him I was - he said I should be able to have some wine to relax at night and not feel bad about it. He was saying this as he was writing prescriptions for Xanax and Ambien!

He needs to retire - wait, maybe that's what he's trying to do - get repeat patients with addictions and let them think they're okay and keep them drugged up as well! Money, money, money!

Dumbass --

Sly

[Rich]

I had a psychiatrist tell me NOT to quit drinking when I told him I was - he said I should be able to have some wine to relax at night and not feel bad about it. He was saying this as he was writing prescriptions for Xanax and Ambien!

He needs to retire - wait, maybe that's what he's trying to do - get repeat patients with addictions and let them think they're okay and keep them drugged up as well! Money, money, money!

Dumbass --

SlyOoooooooooooooooH AaaaaaaaaaaaH ..Tell me who he is I will send the WQD Mafia after his butt

[Molting]

THis topic was covered in the one of the main international newspapers recently


They wrote a 2 page feature that had NO FACTS. It was a story whose headline suggested there was a possibility that drinking alchohol was good for people and it showed happy pictures of people imbibing.

THe actual article was full of fluff. No evidence, no reports, just guessing and quotes from people who were not sure but were wondering out loud.

I had to say the sernity prayer 5 times in a row just to keep calm.

[Rich]

Well I would say the proof of the age of the person and the fact they said it was because they never drank, is a pretty damn good fact

[B sober]

As much as I know I should not drink a drop of it (and in fact I'm sober these days), I find it strange that everyone here seems to dismiss previous and ongoing research about the benefits of drinking small amounts of red wine.

I mean, read this (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/153734.php):

A mini-review of recent findings on red wine's polyphenols, particularly one called resveratrol, will be published in the September issue of Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research.

It's not half-drunk late-night journalism defending the writer's own bad habits.

Short summary of the findings:

Key points of the review include:

- Resveratrol exhibits therapeutic potential for cancer chemoprevention as well as cardioprotection.

"It sounds contradictory that a single compound can benefit the heart by preventing damage to cells, yet prevent cancer by causing cell death, Dr Brown said. "The most likely explanation for this, still to be rigorously proved in many organs, is that low concentrations activate survival mechanisms of cells while high concentrations turn on the in-built death signals in these cells.""

- Resveratrol may aid in the prevention of age-related disorders, such as neurodegenerative diseases, inflammation, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.

"The simplest explanation is that resveratrol turns on the cell's own survival pathways, preventing damage to individual cells," Dr Brown said. "Further mechanisms help, including removing very reactive oxidants in the body and improving blood supply to cells."

- Low doses of resveratrol improve cell survival as a mechanism of cardio- and neuro-protection, while high doses increase cell death.

"The key difference is probably the result of activation of the sirtuins in the nucleus," Dr Brown said. "Low activation reverses age-associated changes, while high activation increases the process of apoptosis or programmed cell dUQ eath to remove cellular debris. Similar changes are seen with low-dose versus high-dose resveratrol: low-dose resveratrol produces cellular protection and reduces damage, while high-dose resveratrol prevents cancers."

In summary, Dr Brown said, current scientific research was starting to explain reports from the last 200 years that drinking red wine improves health.

"It is a cliché that 'nature is a treasure trove of compounds,' but studies with resveratrol show that this is correct.


Again, it's going to be published in full in the September issue of "Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research".

I will still be sober after reading the whole study.

[bigsister987]

I find it strange that everyone here seems to dismiss previous and ongoing research about the benefits of drinking small amounts of red wine.

.

I don't know why you find it strange. This is a quit drinking web site so when we read about the benefits of drinking wine we sit up and take notice. I looked into this a year ago and according to the World Health Organisation the research is far from conclusive, and they concluded that doctors should not encourage patients to drink wine or any other alcohol, because the research does not back up the claims for health benefits. There is very clear, and widely accepted research that consuming even small amounts of alcohol cause several cancers, particularly breast cancer, and that women are particularly vulnerable. The WHO article found one small study that showed that men over 40 with a pre-existing heart condition might gain some benefit from drinking alcohol, but no other groups have been found to benefit. I know one woman who is a health nut, and she drinks red wine every day for health reasons (she doesn't really like it). She had no idea that there was research showing that she was increasing her risk of breast cancer, because for some reason this data is not publicised so widely.

Here is an interesting article on the French Paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox

The role of red wine in the French Paradox is largely discredited now, so I hope the author's come up with more accurate and up to date data. What I find really interesting is why there seems to be a consistent need to prove the health benefits of red wine, when there are better and easier ways of achieving the same affects. For some reason eating more fish each week doesn't seem to make the same headlines. I'm not necessarily suggesting anything sinister (although I wouldn't dismiss it either), just that the press like stories that suggest a paradox, such as the alcohol is good, alcohol is bad one, even when the data does not back it up. Researchers know how to present research to the media in a way that will encourage its publication, and saying drinking alcohol is good for you is one way of doing that.

[B sober]

What I find really interesting is why there seems to be a consistent need to prove the health benefits of red wine, when there are better and easier ways of achieving the same affects.

That one's easy - journalists sometimes write what they think their readers want to read.

For some reason eating more fish each week doesn't seem to make the same headlines. I'm not necessarily suggesting anything sinister (although I wouldn't dismiss it either), just that the press like stories that suggest a paradox, such as the alcohol is good, alcohol is bad one, even when the data does not back it up. Researchers know how to present research to the media in a way that will encourage its publication, and saying drinking alcohol is good for you is one way of doing that.

I clearly see this.

However, here's my concern: If we for some reason should find out that heroin use have certain health advantages (no, I don't think it will ever happen) the right attitude from science would be to try to find out why.

What's in heroin that could cause this? Could we isolate this stuff and make it into pills with the same effect? Does one have to take heroin in a certain way, or in combination with certain other things (weed) to get this effect? Is it really true, or are heroin users also heavy users of green tea (;)) and the tea really causing the effect we see?

That's where we are now, approximately, when we talk about alcohol/red wine/resveratrol having positive health effect - or not. We are trying to find (and have found, I think), that certain grapes have a higher concentration of whatever it is, and there might be a connection between longevity and the areas where those grapes are growing.

We shouldn't tell people that a tiny shot of heroin every day is good for you (but I might say that alcohol is a lot less dangerous, so let's say just that), but neither should we ignore that we have a scientific mystery in front of us and finding the answers might help a lot of people in the future.

I hope - unlike people who can enjoy a glass of wine now and then - that if there are such positive effects of drinking red wine we can find the ingredient, put it in a pill or add it to drinking water.

But just because we are alcoholics, don't call BS yet.

[bigsister987]

To be honest there seems to be no shortage of people looking to prove that alcohol/red wine is good for you, so there no fear of any life giving properties being missed.

I guess some people find it hard to come to a quit drinking website and find pieces on how drinking wine is good for their health, so you can understand if there is a reaction against it from people here.

[B sober]

To be honest there seems to be no shortage of people looking to prove that alcohol/red wine is good for you, so there no fear of any life giving properties being missed.

That's why I didn't start a thread about the benefits of drinking ;)

I guess some people find it hard to come to a quit drinking website and find pieces on how drinking wine is good for their health, so you can understand if there is a reaction against it from people here.

So let's just say that we don't know yet, but let's not deny the fact that serious research is still being done and science is still puzzled about what might be there.

P.S.:

To my old friends here:
I've had a strange time in my personal life and there was some alcohol involved, never at previous max levels (but more than enough). I'm sober now.

[Rich]

I hope - unlike people who can enjoy a glass of wine now and then - that if there are such positive effects of drinking red wine we can find the ingredient, put it in a pill or add it to drinking water.

But just because we are alcoholics, don't call BS yet.

If you would have read the first post, the people that set records on age said they owed it all to not drinking alcohol. Not because they drank a occasional glass of wine. These are facts, if you can find someone that says they drank the occasional glass of wine and that is why they are the oldest person around you can argue the point. Gosh!!

[HollyJM]

What I find sad is that the research results that indicate that alcohol increases risk of serious health issues don't get the same media play as the research that supports drinking "in moderation".

Why doesn't everyone know that studies show that 3-4 drinks per day cause measurable brain damage in "social drinkers"?

That's a very good question. About 2 years ago, there was a big convention of researchers here discussing those health risks of "moderate" drinking. They had a long list of diseases they believe alcohol is linked to, cancer being one. They talked about the need for broader public education and there was a fairly lengthy article in the paper, the country's largest.

But that's just one article. My view is that you will read these things first in the medical journals, and it takes a while to filter out into the mainstream, to become common knowledge for "everyone". Look how many decades passed between the breaking news that smoking is dangerous (1960s?) and the banning of it in public places...several decades. In this country, the government reaps a lot of revenue from the sale of alcohol. Everyone (government, MADD) seems bent on the "don't drink and drive" message, debating DUI penalties, and that's where the focus is. Even when I was growing up, there wasn't much media coverage on drinking and driving.

I think things will gradually shift, that the knowledge will grow, Ronnie.

[alicat]

Nice to see this topic debated here in more civil terms!

Hands up, who here drank red wine because they thought it was good for their heart?! I imagine all of us knew pretty damn well we were drinking to the detriment of our minds, bodies and relationships.

By the way, recently on British radio, a report showing that as little as one or two drinks per week causes statistically significant increase in cancer rates.

[courage]

The standard answer for an alcholic to his Dr when asked how much he drinks is

A couple of beers a couple times a week

[David22]

Great stories thanks Rich. I like sharks comment at the end!

[Rich]

The majority of prospective studies on alcohol use and mortality risk indicates that abstainers are at increased risk of mortality from both all causes and coronary heart disease (CHD). This meta-analysis of 54 published studies tested the extent to which a systematic misclassification error was committed by including as 'abstainers' many people who had reduced or stopped drinking, a phenomenon associated with ageing and ill health. The studies judged to be error free found no significant all-cause or cardiac protection, suggesting that the cardiac protection afforded by alcohol may have been over-estimated. Estimates of mortality from heavier drinking may also be higher than previously estimated.

[Aquarius]

Good post.

Ever since I took a statistics course in grad school, I don't trust article that boast about 'lowered rates' of any sort of disease among 'moderate drinkers.'

I personally don't think there is any safe level of alcohol.

On the day of my DUI, I had drank about 4 glasses of wine in 6 hours. And eaten!! We're all told, taught, and preached to about the liver's ability to breakdown 1 drink per hour. So according to that rule, I should have had a zero BAL and been just fine to drive.

I wasn't.

[Rich]

They said most of the people that they surveyed not drinking, had drinking problems during part of their life. So I would like to see if they found people that had never drank period. Not ones that had to quit and compare them to moderate drinkers.

[B sober]

If you would have read the first post, the people that set records on age said they owed it all to not drinking alcohol. Not because they drank a occasional glass of wine. These are facts, if you can find someone that says they drank the occasional glass of wine and that is why they are the oldest person around you can argue the point. Gosh!!

Hi Rich,

Here's the thing: My life has been pretty much about statistics and probabilities. I don't take one old man saying that I got this old because I (fill in the blank) as evidence of anything.

And of course, if I spent some time on it I would find a lot more of these personal statements which go like this (http://www.yelp.com/topic/austin-tell-me-a-little-bit-about-the-oldest-person-you-know):

"The oldest person I know is my friend's mother. Her name is Mary and she is 98 years old. She doesn't smoke but has no problem with being around seconhand smoke and encourages people who want to smoke to do so around her. She drinks alcohol but is not an alcoholic (probably average 2-3 drinks a week). She used to drink enough to get drunk but when she was 96 that nearly caused her to fall so now she drinks more moderately than before."

Personally I know that smoking kills, drinking is probably bad for us at any level above a little bit, but I still think it's great that we are doing research to try to find out what it is - if anything - in red wine (or grapes) that has a positive effect on the chances of getting a heart attack.

It won't make a difference for me anyhow, I am past that point where I could drink in moderation, but who knows what we could gain from further investigation?

[bigsister987]

Well fortunately B Sober there are quite a few scientists doing just that, so if it's there we will hear about it pretty soon. There is a very powerful drinks industry to make sure that they get funded and publicised too.

For women, whatever ingredient they identify will have to isolated and put into a different medium, because the research has shown that even one glass of wine a day raises a woman's risk of breast cancer by a significant amount http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/10/healthmag.wine.breast.cancer/.




"The message is pretty simple," Allen said. "Moderate drinking increases breast cancer risk, and it seems that the more you drink the higher the risk."

[Rich]

Hi Rich,

Here's the thing: My life has been pretty much about statistics and probabilities. I don't take one old man saying that I got this old because I (fill in the blank) as evidence of anything.

It was not one old man it was 2 old men and they were the oldest men in the world.
I don't know what kind of facts you want, but when two of the oldest people in the world say it was because they did not drink. I call it a fact. So argue with me that you need a occasional drink leads to a long life??
Now if your 98 year old lady you know, lives to be older then you can say it has no bearing

[Rich]

anotherone

Ecuadorean woman declared world's oldest

A 116-year-old Ecuadorean woman has been declared the oldest person in the world, lifting the title from a United States woman previously thought to be the oldest person alive, Guinness World Records said.
Maria Esther Capovilla was confirmed as the oldest living person after her family sent details of her birth and marriage certificates to Guinness World Records.
"We only told her yesterday she was the new Guinness world record holder," Kate White, brand manager at the records publisher, said. "We hadn't heard of her before."
"She's in very good health, she's got good sight, is able to read the papers and watch television, and doesn't walk with a stick."
Ms Capovilla was born in Guayaqull in western Ecuador on September 14, 1889, and lives there today with her daughter-in-law and son.
She had five children, and has four grandchildren, nine great-grandchildren and two great-great-grandchildren.
Her husband died in 1949.
Ms White said Ms Capovilla had been asked what she thought about the changes she had seen over her life.
"She said she disliked the fact that presently it's acceptable for women to pursue men. And she said that every day she thanks God that she's alive," Ms White said.
As a girl at the turn of the century, one of Ms Capovilla's favourite pastimes was going to parties, where she never drank alcohol.

[B sober]

It was not one old man it was 2 old men and they were the oldest men in the world.
I don't know what kind of facts you want, but when two of the oldest people in the world say it was because they did not drink. I call it a fact. So argue with me that you need a occasional drink leads to a long life??
Now if your 98 year old lady you know, lives to be older then you can say it has no bearing

Whatever two old men say about why they got that old doesn't make it a fact, because I bet you a hundred dollars that there were a lot of other factors involved than alcohol, and 2 people make lousy statistics. Or I should say that the sample size is far too small.

If I can search up a handful of hundred year old people who say they got so old because they "smoked some cigars and drank some whiskey" and introduce it on this forum, would you accept their stories as evidence of anything?

From Seattle Times:

"Some supercentenarians make good lifestyle choices: They eat right, exercise and drink alcohol in moderation. Others soldier on despite bad habits. Typically, people who live to 100 have been independent into their 90s, dispelling the notion that aging necessarily brings progressive sickness. So supercentenarians might hold the secret to a long, healthy life.

"Our aim is not to get everyone to 110. Our aim is to get more people to live to an older age. And to compress the time that they're sick to the very end of their lives," says Dr. Thomas Perls, director of the New England Centenarian Study.."

"Most people are not aware that there is a master list of the oldest living people in the world," says Dr. L. Stephen Coles, a retired professor and co-founder of the Gerontology Research Group.

.....

But how did she and the world's other supercentenarians manage to live so long? Interviews of those on the master list reveal they don't have much in common, Coles says.

Some read the Bible, stay true to one partner and live the clean life. Others have no religion, fool around and smoke cigars.

.....

One thing does come up repeatedly. Their parents and siblings also live long lives.

"So it's in the genes. It's inherited," Coles says."

Genes. Not much else in common.

[Rich]

If I can search up a handful of hundred year old people who say they got so old because they "smoked some cigars and drank some whiskey" and introduce it on this forum, would you accept their stories as evidence of anything?

.

Look it was the oldest living people and it is now 2 men and a women. I said it proves you do not need alcohol to live a healthy life.

Yes, you have 2 days to show me someone that lived over 110, that atributes it to smoking or drinking. If not I guess you have no basis. I would like to see the oldest living, but I will be nice and just say over 110.

Liars figure, figures don't lie

[sharksandwich]

[B] Yes, you have 2 days to show me someone that lived over 110, that atributes it to smoking or drinking.

Here is Beatrice McElory of Fort Wayne, Indiana. Beatrice enjoys the rich, smooth tobacco blend of Winston Menthols, which she says brings in the "fresh breath of Spring". It also provides her lungs with a much needed protective coating of tar.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YJAHsfX-CcU/SicXVcHZoTI/AAAAAAAAAl4/eO6eCRj7wJ8/s400/Smoker100YearsOld.jpg

[oldcentralchas]

Mr. Henry Allingham, Britain's oldest WWI veteran.


Allingham, who was the world's oldest man when he died Saturday at 113, attributed his remarkable longevity to "cigarettes, whisky and wild, wild women."

Just because he could do it doesn't mean that I can. Obviously NOT an alcoholic!

[B sober]

Someone found them already ..... ;)

I don't think I ever posted that "alcohol is necessary to live a healthy life".

A gerontology professor says that the old people don't have much in common.

Interviews of those on the master list reveal they don't have much in common, Coles says. Some read the Bible, stay true to one partner and live the clean life. Others have no religion, fool around and smoke cigars.

One thing does come up repeatedly. Their parents and siblings also live long lives. "So it's in the genes. It's inherited," Coles says.

As an old statistician I can't find much useful information in that statement, I can only hope (?) that my genes are not too bad.

But we have lots of statistics saying something about French having less heart problems than Americans, and some people are trying to find out why.

It could be food, air quality, sexlife or the salinity in their drinking water, even the fact that they drink wine more often. Just because alcohol is dangerous and can lead to serious health problems doesn't mean it cannot contain something that is good for my heart. Let's find out.

It's done all the time, like here (http://science.education.nih.gov/AnimalResearch.nsf/Story1/Making+Medicines+from+Poisonous+Snakes):

Knowing all this, you would think medical researchers wouldn’t want to come close to these poisonous snakes, or the deadly venom they produce in their saliva and eject out of fangs. But poisonous snakes are the prized research animals for some scientists searching for better treatments for such disorders as high blood pressure, heart disease, stroke, Alzheimer’s disease and cancer. These investigators think that the very proteins that make snake venom so deadly, may, in the right amounts or with the right changes, be healing for millions of Americans.
So let's find out. And that's what scientists are doing as we speak.

[StartOver]

There is only one thing which has consistently been shown to improve longevity and that is a significantly low calorie diet. This is true across race, culture, and even species.

Many other things have been shown to have some loose associations, and that is strong family ties, a strong spiritual system, and the combined lack of smoking and alcohol.

Anyone who dismisses the dangers of smoking is living a lie.

Alcohol's health benefits are real, but pale in comparison with its risks if you average real use over populations.

Don't let the AV (or others' AV's) fool you.

[littlekings]

Go figure. I remember as a child in the 1970s going to my Great Grandparents' home on Christmas Eve and watching Great-Grandpa open shoe boxes full of Lucky Strikes and cases of Black Label beer given to him as presents. My Great-Grandpa lived to be 100, and I do not think he had any major health problems. I know he never had cancer. Grandpa told me that whenever they had steak Great-Grandpa would want to eat everyone's fat and gristle. I do not remember anyone questioning Great-Grandpa's lifestyle, and I am pretty sure Great-Grandpa and Grandpa drank three or more Black Label beers every night until they reached their seventies. I remember Grandpa frequently drinking a six-pack while he listened to Cincinnati Reds baseball games. Grandpa lived to be 92, and Great-Grandma lived to be 99 (I do not think she smoked or drank). Great-Grandpa worked hard on his farm until his seventies, and both he and Grandpa kept large gardens, so they ate mostly their own vegtables (Great-Grandma and Grandma were excellent canners). I never saw Grandpa drink liquor or appear drunk. I think what I saw at home was one reason why it took me so long to recognize my own alcohol problem. I saw relatives drink frequently without any negative consequences.

[B sober]

Alcohol's health benefits are real, but pale in comparison with its risks if you average real use over populations.

Well, that's what the discussion and the research is about - some people seem to dismiss the possibility altogether (that there could be something in alcohol that is beneficial to us) others encourage more research to find out if there is such a connection and could we possibly find that ingredient and isolate it.

The research has mostly been about heart diseases, not about the total amount of other diseases that drinkers could get - that would be irrelevant if we could find that pill to reduce heart attacks and at the same time avoid the negative sides of drinking.

By the way, estimated life span at birth is 2.87 years higher in France than in the US and also the highest of all European countries according to the CIA factbook.

[sharksandwich]

Who needs Social Security and Medicare? The tobacco and alcohol industries can support the aging population by paying them to lead the crusade to get young people to make unhealthy choices. That will keep down the number of elderly people in need of support for generations to come.

I wish I could remember the source, but I once read an editorial stating that smoking costs us a very high amount as a society in healthcare costs, which was a reason for outlawing the sale of tobacco. Someone else made a counter argument that smoking actually saved us in long term healthcare costs because smokers died off earlier, and as a result didn't have time to contract the chronic diseases that people acquire as they age. That struck me as the most curious rationalization for smoking I have ever heard.

[Rich]

Mr Allingham once jokingly attributed his longevity to 'cigarettes, whisky and wild, wild women'.
But he later admitted that he had taken care of himself, adding: 'The trick is to look after yourself and always know your limitations.'


So I guess that does not count, now once again find someone that lived over 110 that said it was because of alcohol, and it is not joking

[B sober]

Mr Allingham once jokingly attributed his longevity to 'cigarettes, whisky and wild, wild women'.
But he later admitted that he had taken care of himself, adding: 'The trick is to look after yourself and always know your limitations.'


So I guess that does not count, now once again find someone that lived over 110 that said it was because of alcohol, and it is not joking

1.

I didn't see that in his quote?

2.

"Knowing your limitations" sounds pretty much like drinking in moderation to me.

[T-Bone]

Well, that's what the discussion and the research is about - some people seem to dismiss the possibility altogether (that there could be something in alcohol that is beneficial to us) others encourage more research to find out if there is such a connection and could we possibly find that ingredient and isolate it.

The research has mostly been about heart diseases, not about the total amount of other diseases that drinkers could get - that would be irrelevant if we could find that pill to reduce heart attacks and at the same time avoid the negative sides of drinking.

By the way, estimated life span at birth is 2.87 years higher in France than in the US and also the highest of all European countries according to the CIA factbook.

There has already been a ton of research, here are a couple of reviews. Seems like the resveratrol in red wine which is well known isnot the only component in red wine that is beneficial. The whole concoction of polyphenols you get from red wine (and dark beer) work better than getting it from grapes or as an isolated compound. Anyway, just thought you might be interested in these reviews.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19519720?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18651034?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

[T-Bone]

I should have pointed out this one has free full text online....

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=18651034

[Rich]

1.


"Knowing your limitations" sounds pretty much like drinking in moderation to me.

I would have guessed he meant limitations on all areas of life. But even if he did mean drinking, he would meant he never over indulged. Not that it made him live longer.


By the way there is no Beatrice McElory of Fort Wayne either

[Rich]

Fact, not sure if I mentioned these


Tomoji Tanabe, who was the world's oldest man and repeatedly said the secret to his long life was "not smoking and not drinking," died Friday at his home in southern Japan. He was 113.



QUITO, Ecuador (Reuters) - The world's oldest person, a 116-year-old Ecuadorean woman who drank donkey milk for health, died on Sunday less than a month before her birthday, her relatives told local newspapers on Monday.
Maria Esther de Capovilla was declared the world's oldest person in December by Guinness World Records, taking the title from a U.S. woman.
Capovilla was born in Guayaquil in western Ecuador on September 14, 1889, the same year that Adolf Hitler was born and the Eiffel Tower was inaugurated, and lived in a ritzy neighborhood with her daughter-in-law and son.
Relatives attributed her astonishingly long life to regular doses of donkey's or goat's milk, glasses of wine and a quiet life dedicated to her family.


Her eyesight was good up to the end and she never needed glasses, they said.
As a girl at the turn of the century, Capovilla liked to go to parties but never drank alcohol. At the time it was the custom for women to touch the rim of the glass with their lips without drinking, as a sign of accepting hospitality, her family said.


Lisbon, Jan 3 (DPA) The world’s oldest person, Maria de Jesus, died Friday at the age of 115 in a hospital in the Portuguese community of Corujo near the city of Tomar.She held the Guinness world record for just a month after the death of American Edna Parker.
De Jesus, born Sep 10, 1983, had never left the small town where she was born and completely avoided both alcohol and coffee, relatives told local media.
Her husband, Jose, died 58 years ago, when she was 57 years old. She had six children, 11 grandchildren, 16 great-grandchildren and five great-great-grandchildren.
“She was a real fighter, and we were lucky to know her personally,” Tomar’s Mayor Corvelo Sousa said.

[B sober]

There has already been a ton of research, here are a couple of reviews. Seems like the resveratrol in red wine which is well known isnot the only component in red wine that is beneficial. The whole concoction of polyphenols you get from red wine (and dark beer) work better than getting it from grapes or as an isolated compound. Anyway, just thought you might be interested in these reviews.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19519720?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18651034?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

I know. And that's why I cannot understand people who are just brushing it off as "not true" or "bad science".

I am an alcoholic. Drinking in moderation doesn't work for me. But I still hope we can find out what, if anything, in grapes or red wine, that is beneficial to our health.

[B sober]

I would have guessed he meant limitations on all areas of life. But even if he did mean drinking, he would meant he never over indulged. Not that it made him live longer.

Research on benefits of drinking red wine, if they are real, are always emphasizing moderation - so the assumption that he never over indulged has nothing to do with our discussion as far as I can see.

By the way there is no Beatrice McElory of Fort Wayne either.

I don't get the "either". Who else is not there?

[B sober]

You forgot to bold this line:

Fact, not sure if I mentioned these
Relatives attributed her astonishingly long life to regular doses of donkey's or goat's milk, glasses of wine and a quiet life dedicated to her family.

[Rich]

Research on benefits of drinking red wine, if they are real, are always emphasizing moderation - so the assumption that he never over indulged has nothing to do with our discussion as far as I can see.



As I stated I have found quite a few people that lived to be the oldest people in the world, that said they never drank. If there is somethig in the red wine, I am guessing it is not the alcohol. A lot of people use this as a excuse to keep drinking.

At any rate, you do not need it, to live to be the oldest person in the world

[bigsister987]

Those people who have come to WQD (We Quit Drinking) who do not wish to read about the benefits of drinking read wine may prefer to put this thread on ignore. If you go up to Thread Tools at the top of this thread and choose Ignore this thread from the drop down list, the thread will disappear so long as you are logged in as a member. Unfortunately if you are not a member you cannot do this (a good reason to join perhaps).

Rich, I don't think it is appropriate for it to be a sticky either. I am not saying we should not discuss this issue, but perhaps we should be a bit more sensitive to those who are trying to quit drinking red wine and don't really need long term members here discussing its benefits. Sadly we are bombarded with this because hardly a week goes by without some newspaper or magazine pronouncing that red wine prolongs life and prevents ageing (as claimed in T-Bones link).

[T-Bone]

The papers I posted are not newspapers or magazines, they are peer reviewed scientific articles reviewing the research literature, in highly respected journals. There's a big difference.

You're right though, on a quit drinking web site, it might make sense to withhold information from people to keep their minds focused on the task in front of them, so I apologize for posting the papers.

I guess I am comfortable enough in my quit to feel like I can face reality, and keep an open mind. I understand that I am the one with the problem, and that the rest of society is not.

So my advise to new people that came here to get help to quit drinking is that if you are addicted to alcohol, the only effective way to fix that is complete abstinence. You are no longer able to have alcohol, not even a little.

[Gardengirl]

I think red wine was the favorite drink of that young woman in the "Rain in my Heart" documentary.

She bled out in a hospital at the age of 24.

Its a bit silly to talk about the health benefits of red wine to people who consider a bottle a single serving, and blackouts a regular past-time.

Come on, people.

[B sober]

Its a bit silly to talk about the health benefits of red wine to people who consider a bottle a single serving, and blackouts a regular past-time.

Come on, people.

1.

I see your point - but this thread started, and continued, (OK, I'm exaggerating a bit) by dismissing the research as crap and wishful thinking by wine-drinking journalists.

Which I personally think is wrong, there is serious research going on, and the "Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research" is printing interesting findings in their September issue. It's not a drinking-promoting tabloid.

I am an alcoholic, but I dont need to pretend that red wine cannot possibly have ingredients that might be doing some good for heart related illnesses. Maybe we can eat that ingredient in a year or three.

2.

People on this forum aren't stupid enough to read this one thread and say "OK, as much as I hate it, I'll go back to drinking then ...." :rolleyes:

[Rich]

Its a bit silly to talk about the health benefits of red wine to people who consider a bottle a single serving, and blackouts a regular past-time.

Come on, people.

I agree we all know the glass of wine saying crap. All I wanted to point out was that the oldest man in the world did not drink at all. Along the way I found a few more. So I am not sure why it turned into a arguement over the benifits of wine drinking.

Do not think for one bit that people do not use this for a excuse to drink. No they shouldn't, but like Garden says, a single serving to a lot of people here, is a bottle of wine. Heck all I needed was the first snow of the year for a good reason to drink

[B sober]

I agree we all know the glass of wine saying crap. All I wanted to point out was that the oldest man in the world did not drink at all. Along the way I found a few more. So I am not sure why it turned into a arguement over the benifits of wine drinking.

I'm sorry, I'm one of the opponents here and we probably agree about almost everything, except that science is science and personal accounts are just that - and of course, I couldn't resist looking up this old lady (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Jeanne_Calment) who stopped smoking at 117 and said that

"She gave up smoking only five years before her death at the age of 117 years. Though she relapsed for a year she finally gave up smoking at the age of 119 years (blindness made it difficult for her to light a cigarette, and she was reluctant to ask others for help). When asked on one occasion for her prescription for a long life, she mentioned garlic, vegetables, cigarettes, red wine, and avoiding brawls. On another occasion, she ascribed her longevity and relatively youthful appearance for her age to olive oil, which she said she poured on all her food and rubbed onto her skin, as well as a diet of port wine, and nearly 2 pounds of chocolate eaten every week."

Do not think for one bit that people do not use this for a excuse to drink. No they shouldn't, but like Garden says, a single serving to a lot of people here, is a bottle of wine. Heck all I needed was the first snow of the year for a good reason to drink

That could well be, at least out there in the world where people think they are not alcoholics. But in here? I'm seriously in doubt if anyone who is a regular here would use such a lame excuse for drinking again. As you say, it used to take the slightest thing - the doorbell ringing, we have visitors - and I would be on a double serving, two bottles, at least.

Again: I don't recommend drinking to anyone. But if they find a strange correlation between herion addicts and the absence of some specific diseases, I would like the scientists to try to find out which component in heroin could explain the phenomenon, and could it be of help for other people.

[StartOver]

There's a classic picture of the alcoholic heart, enlarged, floppy and has completely clean coronary arteries. Alcohol almost certainly improves lipids and decreases plaque buildup in arteries, which is of course the #1 killer in the U.S.

But I don't know of any studies showing it improves all cause mortality in any way.

The big point here is that all this talk is not about any of us.

[B sober]

If they find a strange correlation between herion addicts and the absence of some specific diseases, they wouldn't advocate the general population use just a little heroin each day. That is the point.

But if heroin was a common and legal drug and they found such a corrolation (for heaven's sake, say painkillers instead of heroin) they would absolutely do more research AND they might suggest that moderate use could be good for us. Much like aspirin, don't you agree?

And I'm not in any way advocating use of a little alcohol a day. At least not for alcoholics (for the general population I simply don't know yet. If they would live longer after adding up the fewer heart attacks and the higher numbers of liver diseases etcetera, they'd have a choice, wouldn't they?).

I am, however, saying that we should continue the research to find out which (if any) ingredient in red wine, or alcohol, it is that is beneficiary to us. And I plainly refuse to say BS as long as serious research is still being done.

[B sober]

There's a classic picture of the alcoholic heart, enlarged, floppy and has completely clean coronary arteries. Alcohol almost certainly improves lipids and decreases plaque buildup in arteries, which is of course the #1 killer in the U.S.

But I don't know of any studies showing it improves all cause mortality in any way.

But this IS the paradox, the French live longer than most other people and they drink a lot more red wine than other people. They also eat differently, with other ingredients, at other times of the day.

They live about three years longer than Americans (well, we eat to many burgers), but they also live longer than all other European people like the Swedes or the Norwegians who are eating healthy and drinking a lot less.

If living longer is not improving all cause mortality I need to get a new definition.

The big point here is that all this talk is not about any of us.

And here we agree.

[Rich]

But this IS the paradox, the French live longer than most other people and they drink a lot more red wine than other people. They also eat differently, with other ingredients, at other times of the day.


Icelanders have been for a long time one of the world's longest living nations. Icelandic women live a little bit longer than Icelandic men. The reasons behind Icelanders' longevity are many, some known and other little known.
http://www.icelandinfocus.com/images/inarticles/SH100745.JPGIceland runs one the best and most efficient health care systems in the world. The health care system is available for all Icelanders, without regard for social or financial status, operated by the government and financed from tax collection.

Iceland’s generous fishing grounds have provided Icelanders with fresh seafood all year round. Fresh seafood has played a vital part in Icelanders’ longevity since it is a source of essential oils and nutrition necessary to maintain good health.

According to statistics Icelanders are a happy nation and a frequent chart topper in the world’s happy meter, despite having world record too in prescription anti-depressants per capita. Health care, fresh seafood, high quality of life and a smile on every face is the prescription for Icelanders’ longevity

[bigsister987]

It is common knowledge that drinkers who are well nourished suffer less alcoholic damage. Swedes and Norwegians are HEAVY drinkers with limited access to fresh fruits and vegetables. Yes, veg is shipped in, but I know from experience that they are limp shadows of the veggies I got at shops in Paris or the Farmers' Market in my neighborhood. Personally, I believe that nutrients one gets from one's diet are important. A dish of fresh field greens lightly sauteed with garlic and lemon juice is better for one's health than a vitamin pill. Having prosciutto wrapped melon is far better than chips 'n dip. The diet compounds the problems alcohol creates.

The French might live 10 years longer than N. Americans if they didn't drink so much red wine. But no one wants to do that study...

i have to say, in my experience the standard of French food is very high (I have family there so I visit regularly). They wouldn't dream of eating the rubbish the Brits and Americans stuff their faces with. It is less intensively farmed, and not as processed. Good quality in other words. That might explain why their obesity rate is 16.1 (M) and 17.6 (F) compared the US's 31.1 (M) and 33.2 (F).

Still maybe they are not as healthy as we believe:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/oct/27/worlddispatch.france

An interesting point for those against socialised health care:

France's capacity to prevent the onset of cancer remains very weak but, because of its advanced health system, those suffering from cancer in France tend to survive for longer than people elsewhere once they have been diagnosed.

[sharksandwich]

I'm not so sure about that article, Pat. The guy who wrote that also believes that AIDS was created by the pharmaceutical industry to create a market for AZT (http://www.dherbs.com/articles/aids-hiv-207.html).

On the plus side, he's a shill for this herbal compound (http://www.dherbs.com/store/jackrabbit-formula-p-41.html) to counter impotence. You'll notice that it contains such ingredients as "horny goat weed", "strongback" and "stiffcock". Ronnie is more of an expert on nutrition than I, but I'm guessing that with ingredients like this, it has to be effective. I might order this, along with his Aquarius formula, which is specifically designed for people born between January 20th and February 19th. You can get your own zodiac formula here (http://www.dherbs.com/store/zodiac-formulas-c-51.html).

This conversation is academic, because any potential benefit derived from moderate alcohol consumption isn't applicable to any of us. We can't moderate, and anyone whose drinking problems were severe enough for them to find this board can't moderate, either. Our choices are either to not drink, for which the benefits to us are many - or to drink abusively, for which the consequences are severe.

I'm not 100 years old, but at 41 I wound up in the hospital, and I have no doubt it is largely a consequence of my alcohol abuse over the years. I have a friend who died last month after his first bout of pancreatitus, which was brought on by alcoholism. I quit drinking, and my LDL cholesterol level, liver enzymes level, blood pressure, etc. - which were off the charts high two months before I quit drinking, are now each in normal range. All this is because I quit. My friend didn't quit, and he is dead. His drinking problem was acute, but not much different than my own. Most of us wouldn't die as a direct result of drinking, as in by way of liver failure or a impaired driving accident; but, we would probably die sooner, and our quality of life will suffer along the way.

This is an interesting discussion, and it doesn't bother me in the least to recognize any benefit to moderate drinking. I also can't imagine anyone whose life is being ruined by booze deciding to moderate because a glass of burgundy a day raises their HDL levels. Anyone who can drink a single glass would never find their way here. We may as well be discussing the potential benefits of the minerals in moon rocks, because ingesting them is about as likely for us as drinking a single cocktail. If anyone here wants to lower their cholesterol levels, then eat Cheerios every day, or eat some freakin' olive oil. I saw on a commercial that stuff works, and they couldn't say it if it weren't true.

[Gardengirl]

:D

Classic sharkbait, there. :)

I remember switching to red wine because of the "benefits." As a matter of fact, I drank red wine while surfing the 'net reading about resveratrol. Only I ran out, and had to get another bottle. I needed more resveratrol, you see, because more you get, the better.

[B sober]

And those are the reasons why the French people die so much more of heart diseases than the rest of us.
No - wait! They die less from it? ;)


OK. That was my first reaction.

Second: None of the articles referred to are talking about red wine or resveratrol (as far as I can see), just alcohol in general.

Third: Let's see what that Alcoholic Journal comes up with in a month or so.

[Rich]

Japan has the least heart disease of all and they are not known as wine drinkers.


You sure like to argue.

[B sober]

Japan has the least heart disease of all and they are not known as wine drinkers.

That is true. They are also smoking more than any other population, about 50% of the men are smokers, so it's kind of the "Japanese paradox (http://www.fatsoflife.com/article.php?nid=2&edition=this&id=587&issueid=66)" (interesting link, you should read it).

Just as with the French one, quite a bit of research has been done to find out why, and it is believed to be a result of the diet, with e.g. a lot more fish than we eat.

Japanese had significantly less atherosclerosis in their coronary arteries and in their carotid arteries compared with both the Japanese-American men and the Caucasians. In fact, the highest prevalence of carotid artery plaque and coronary atherosclerosis occurred in the Japanese-American men. Besides these striking differences in atherosclerosis, the Japanese men had twice the level of long-chain omega-3s in their blood as the other two groups. To put this in perspective, the lowest fifth of the Japanese men had higher omega-3 levels than the average levels in the other two groups.

The French Paradox, however, is described on Wiki as "the observation that the French suffer a relatively low incidence of coronary heart disease, despite having a diet relatively rich in saturated fats."

So, reseachers started to look at what could be the explanation .... and even if the jury is still far from reaching a final verdict, it seems to be something interesting about that resveratrol thingy. :)

You sure like to argue.

We have something in common there! ;)

[B sober]

Hi Pat,

And thanks for interesting and partly contradictory statements from different sources.

I will, of course, pick those that fit my viewpoint (which is to keep on investigating, maybe we can all take a grape pill instead of a low-dose aspirin in a while).

So, selected quotes:

"Also alcohol can contribute to weight problems."

... and then a bit further down:

"Wine drinkers tend to be less fat; they exercise more and usually drink with meals."

... and again, a bit further down:

"Patients in this group [with low to moderate alcohol intake] tend to have lower blood pressure and body weight"

And there's more:

"The risk was 59% lower among those men who had roughly one to two drinks a day."

And this, which I believe is true:

"The amounts of alcohol deemed safe in this study have been shown to increase the odds of death from other illnesses."

But if the number of reduced heart attacks are larger than the increase in other health problems ... then the average lifespan would be longer for moderate drinkers than for non-drinkers, wouldn't it?

[Rich]

B Sober, I am starting to think you work in a wine distillary or have stock in Boones Farm.

[B sober]

B Sober, I am starting to think you work in a wine distillary or have stock in Boones Farm.

:)

No, as I've said before I'm far past the possibility of drinking in moderation, I have to stay away from the wine even if it is correct that it's healthy in small portions.

But I do wish they find out how it works, if it does, so that we non-drinkers could add a teaspoon of the stuff to our cranberry juice. :o

BTW, wine is not distilled ...

[clairebella]

Hey Rich, Did you make me a senior member? Did you give me the little smiley face with the hard hat? What does the green light mean? I feel thrilled about this.

Being a junior did make me feel young though. insert smiley face

[Rich]

:)


But I do wish they find out how it works, if it does, so that we non-drinkers could add a teaspoon of the stuff to our cranberry juice. :o

BTW, wine is not distilled ... Drink grape juice and see if that makes you live longer

[oldcentralchas]

BTW, wine is not distilled ...

But what about Boone's Farm. I seem to remember that from my youth as kind of a "no-grapes involved" kind of wine!

[going my own way]

I keep coming back to this thread and find it interesting what peple have wrote and quoted , but I think that whatever the "facts" are , a person will believe what they want to believe to justify their drinking habit , like I did for a long time .

[sharksandwich]

But what about Boone's Farm. I seem to remember that from my youth as kind of a "no-grapes involved" kind of wine!

Oh yes....Boones Farm. That stuff should be sold as a starter kit for drinkers, and placed in the aisle next to the candy cigarettes. It pairs perfectly with day old pizza crust and velveeta cheeze.

I'm not sure if the long term health benefits of carbonated kool-aid mixed with isopropyl alcohol has been studied.

[B sober]

Fascinating that research that indicates resveratrol may stimulate growth of breast cancer has been around for 12 years, without receiving 1/100th the publicity that the possibility that the possible contribution to heart health has received.

Fascinating yes, but not surprising, even if both should be correct.

Illness/cancer is only a good story for the press if someone claims to have found a cure against it.

Red wine being good for your health would really have everything a journalist needs, like in "dark chocolate works just as well as Viagra" - and it would sell at lot more papers ...

[B sober]

The best "cure" for cancer is to avoid things that promote growth of cancerous cells. Alcohol is a key risk factor in a number of different types of cancer.

I'm not arguing that - I'm just saying that "chocolate can cure cancer" is a much better headline than "chocolate gives you cancer", and news organizations are businesses.

[T-Bone]

Funny, I read this article today and it reminded me of this thread. maybe we can divert our discussion away from alcohol, since it is so near to our inner evils, and talk about coffee and tea instead.


Is your morning coffee an ok option on your healthy eating plan? If coffee really bad for you or is it actually good?

I get these questions about coffee and health all the time and as a coffee drinker myself, it is smart to take a look at both the good and the bad.

Now, I’m not here to tell you that coffee is good for you. If I did, I would be telling only the good side of the story and I’m no politician. I am here to give you the good and the bad and tell you how you can incorporate your favorite coffee or tea into your healthy meal plan.

The Ugly Side of Caffeine

Most coffee and tea contains a lot of caffeine. This is usually the primary reason people make coffee their drink of choice in the morning. Caffeine is a drug like any other and comes with a long list of side effects. Have you ever tried not having your coffee in the morning? Yeah, pass the Excedrin, right? The headache that comes on when you try and kick this habit can be brutal (just like with other drugs) and creating a dependency and addiction like this is harmful to the body.

Second, coffee is extremely acidic. Our bodies function at optimum levels when they are slightly more alkaline (the opposite of acidic). It is best for us to greatly reduce any foods that will drive our body’s pH to be more acidic and eat more foods that are alkaline (like fruits and veggies). An acidic body pH is like a magnet for all kinds of illnesses. Also, an alkaline body has a much stronger immune system, making illness much less likely.

Last but not least, the caffeine in coffee and tea is abuse to your adrenal glands. Your adrenals release your “fight or flight” hormones basically giving you a nice “boost” when needed. Unfortunately, people who drink coffee all day long are consistently beating on their adrenals. This is the equivalent of whipping a tired horse even when he is exhausted. Eventually he will not move at all.

The Pretty Side of Caffeine

Coffee tastes oh so yummy and makes me feel great in the morning. (What? Is that not a good enough reason to drink it?)

Many studies have shown that coffee can help in the prevention and treatment of diseases and illnesses as varied as Alzheimer’s disease, diabetes, liver disease, skin cancer, Parkinsons’s disease and more. Although, I don’t believe coffee would be the cure all to any of these diseases, many ancient cultures did rely on the coffee bean to cure a long list of ailments. Not to mention, small doses of caffeine can increase performance and mental focus.

Green tea is also a great drink to include with a long list of benefits. If nothing else, green tea is a wonderful source of antioxidants which are important in cancer prevention. Green tea has even been found to raise metabolism and aid in fat burning. Before you go take a green tea bath, its effects are really minor when compared to the effects of sound nutrition and exercise plans. Now that I’ve said that, don’t think you can eat junk food and just wash it down with green tea!

What is a coffee and tea drinker to do?

1. Limit your coffee and tea intake to 2 - 8 oz cups per day. No, not 2 of each, 2 total. Any more than that is considered as a heavy addict. (I know. I’ve been there).

2. If you are currently dependent on a lot of caffeine each day, replace 1 or 2 cups of coffee with green tea instead. Green tea has much less caffeine than coffee and will help combat the ugly detox symptoms.

3. Do not jack up your coffee with sugar, milk, syrup and whip cream (So I guess that means no Starbucks, huh?). Use stevia or xylitol to sweeten and avoid all the empty, harmful calories. A teaspoon of half and half won’t hurt either. Please oh please, do not use any of those flavored creamers. They are closer to someone’s chemistry experiment than they are to real food.

4. Make sure to make your food choices healthy. Avoiding other acidic foods like sugar, artificial sweeteners and processed foods will lighten the acid load on the body.

5. Make sure the coffee you drink is organic. Conventional coffee is filled with pesticides and chemicals and should be avoided at all costs.

There is no need to give up your morning coffee but it is important to drink the right types of coffee, without the added unhealthy extras and, as with most things, in moderation.

[B sober]

From Quackwatch:

The similarity in structure between resveratrol and diethylstilbestrol (a synthetic estrogen) has prompted investigations into resveratrol's potential as a phytoestrogen (a plant compound that produces estrogen-like effects). However, these properties also stimulate the growth of human breast cancer cells. This finding seems contrary to its other anticancer activities, and is a cause for concern.

Those interested can find the whole article here, and it actually says things like "Laboratory tests have clearly demonstrated that resveratrol may help prevent cardiovascular disease and cancer".

http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=resveratrol

I have no idea why they haven't updated their information on Resveratrol for many years now.