Can AA work - Page 7

Living · 07-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Like Paul, I saw hundreds of people who it was working for. Like paul stated, we have alot of chances to get off the Alcohell horse.

and

Over four years. I combined all for a 15 percent chance of making it. Old timer gave me stats at first meeting.

Steve

Great Post, Steve!

I have a very similar background. Relied on Carr and RR early on, WQD throughout, then attended AA meetings after a couple of years sober. All helped, all were effective in their own way. Each has a very unique value to one who is interested in quitting alcoHell.

DOMD · 07-31-2010

Thanks Paul, we're in agreement - as I said in my post, AA works for that self selecting group of individuals who end up succeeding in the program.

As far as sample sizes go in the research surrounding AA's efficacy I can only go on what I've read in independent studies on 12 step programs and from the official numbers released by AA itself. I wouldn't dismiss AA as a way for people to get sober, in the same way I wouldn't dismiss RR or CBT or any other form of talk therapy. I also wouldn't recommend it as the first option. If you guys feel like AA is something that works for you then it's obviously having an effect in your particular case.

I think the the issue I have is with the broader (and more complex) question of whether AA "works", which is what CBug was initially asking. I can't argue that there isn't a correlation between attendance to AA or other 12 step programs and a certain percentage of attendees remaining sober for X number of years, that is categorically the case. I'm not qualified to comment on the experiences of program participants (spiritual or otherwise), nor can those experiences be quantified and boiled down into statistics that are then used to measure an effect. Humans and their experiences, and their emotions are biased - numbers are not.

The Sinclair Method is just one of many treatment options, but it is an approach that treats alcohol dependence as a medical problem rather than a moral one. There are plenty of other options out there with varying levels of scientific research backing them up and varying proven levels of efficacy. TSM is scientifically proven to work if you follow the protocol, it wouldn't work if Naltrexone was replaced with a placebo though. Not in any statistically significant sense.

I don't really have anything else to add that I haven't already said. I agree that AA works for some people depending on their definition of success. I maintain that it didn't work for me and probably won't work for other people who are like me. I agree there is a correlation between participation in a 12 step program and a certain number of participants maintaining sobriety. I agree that the research surrounding AA and its associated effectiveness is patchy, I also agree that this is largely due to the difficulty in quantifying spiritual experiences and their effect.

/thread?

_paulmh_ · 07-31-2010

Quote:

I also agree that this is largely due to the difficulty in quantifying spiritual experiences and their effect.

snide......

change now · 08-01-2010

It's taken every tool on the toolbox, but at the end of the day AA is the only thing that has worked. Biggest fallacy in recovery is you go to rehab, get sober, and stay that way as your face appears on the cover of People magazine.

Whatever program you're working, if your thinking is the same, your "wagon time" is just that.